Curse

ahem. · Jun 27, 2008, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Hey,

I'd like to get some advices to improve my hero builds. I've started doing some HM dungeons and my H/H team wiped out several times.

Here are the builds my hero use :

Tahlkora (WoH Hybrid, taken on wiki)
[Skill]Word of Healing[/Skill][Skill]Dwayna's Kiss[/Skill][Skill]Guardian[/Skill][Skill]Shield of Absorption[/Skill][Skill]Dismiss Condition[/Skill][Skill]Protective Spirit[/Skill][Skill]Cure Hex[/Skill][Skill]Rebirth[/Skill]

Kahmu (Wounding Strike)
[Skill]Wounding Strike[/Skill][Skill]Mystic Sweep[/Skill][Skill]Victorious Sweep[/Skill][Skill]Wild Blow[/Skill][Skill]Conviction[/Skill][Skill]Heart Of Fury[/Skill][Skill]Zealous Renewal[/Skill][Skill]Resurrection Signet[/Skill]

Zhed (SF nuker)
[Skill]Searing Flames[/Skill][Skill]Liquid Flame[/Skill][Skill]Glowing Gaze[/Skill][Skill]Meteor Shower[/Skill][Skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/Skill][Skill]Aura of Restoration[/Skill][Skill]Fire Attunement[/Skill][Skill]Resurrection Signet[/Skill]

And my build
[Skill]Read the Wind[/Skill][Skill]Burning Arrow[/Skill][Skill]Sloth Hunter's Shot[/Skill][Skill]Savage Shot[/Skill][Skill]Distracting Shot[/Skill][Skill]Lightning Reflexes[/Skill][Skill]Troll Unguent[/Skill][Skill]Sunspear Rebirth Signet[/Skill]

I usually run this heroes with Mhenlo, Devona, Herta, Cynn.

Please keep in mind that I don't own Factions, so BHA and the 3-Necro-Team is not for me.

So if any of you guys have suggestions on how to improve my team or if I should totally change my setup with new heroes, let me know !

Thanks

Tyla · Jun 27, 2008, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Your Tahlkora should lose Res. Monks should have an active bar. Take it out for Glyph of Lesser Energy, as heroes fail at energy management.

The SF is fine and dandy, but I would really consider an SH hero over it because it has more nuking power, and slapping [[ward against melee] at 10 spec for utility. SF Eles just aren't powerful when there's only one.

Your build should really lose Troll Unguent, and maybe replace Read The Wind with Apply Poison, to spread around for degeneration damage over time.

As for Kahmu, I suggest removing Wild Blow and putting in Attacker's Insight at 4 spec, removing Zealous Renewal and putting in a conjure skill.

If you're not going with a conjure, put in an enchantment that can be kept up indefinately. I'm quite fond of Faithful Intervention myself. Aswell as the usage of Distracting Strike for an interrupt.

I wouldn't really bother with self-defense usually, but I kinda like Conviction.

ahem. · Jun 29, 2008, 09:13 PM // 21:13

I tried most of your suggestions and I came up with these builds. They're mostly the same with some modifications.

Tahlkora (WoH Hybrid, taken on wiki)
[Skill]Word of Healing[/Skill][Skill]Dwayna's Kiss[/Skill][Skill]Guardian[/Skill][Skill]Shield of Absorption[/Skill][Skill]Dismiss Condition[/Skill][Skill]Glyph of lesser energy[/Skill][Skill]Protective Spirit[/Skill][Skill]Cure Hex[/Skill]

Kahmu (Wounding Strike)
[Skill]Wounding Strike[/Skill][Skill]Mystic Sweep[/Skill][Skill]Victorious Sweep[/Skill][Skill]Wild Blow[/Skill][Skill]Conviction[/Skill][Skill]Heart Of Fury[/Skill][Skill]Zealous Renewal[/Skill][Skill]Resurrection Signet[/Skill]

Zhed (SH nuker)
[Skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/Skill][Skill]Savannah Heat[/Skill][Skill]Searing Heat[/Skill][Skill]Fireball[/Skill][Skill]Aura of Restoration[/Skill][Skill]Fire Attunement[/Skill][Skill]Remove Hex[/Skill][Skill]Resurrection Signet[/Skill]

And my build
[Skill]Apply Poison[/Skill][Skill]Prepared Shot[/Skill][Skill]Sloth Hunter's Shot[/Skill][Skill]Savage Shot[/Skill][Skill]Distracting Shot[/Skill][Skill]Lightning Reflexes[/Skill][Skill]Ebon Battle Standard of Courage[/Skill][Skill]Sunspear Rebirth Signet[/Skill]

I took Prepared shot instead of Burning Arrow because if was too energy intensive with the Ebon ward. Like this, I can keep it up at all times without worrying about energy.

I know these could be improved a lot more, so if if you could help me tweak them again, I'd be more than happy

Thanks again !

Introverted Dimensions · Jun 29, 2008, 09:53 PM // 21:53

For the 3-Necro team, Just activate a Factions trial and make sure you unlock all those skills asap. Thats what I did

.

ahem. · Jun 30, 2008, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by trx despair

For the 3-Necro team, Just activate a Factions trial and make sure you unlock all those skills asap. Thats what I did

.

I thought that when the trial was over all the skills would lock again.

I'll try to get a key and then unlock the most skill I can

I'd still like to get some advices though !

Marverick · Jun 30, 2008, 02:29 AM // 02:29

They will lock for you but you're heroes can still use it. Odd but it works.

Your SH nuker needs some more damage.

Try something like
[Fire Attunement][Savannah Heat][Searing Heat][Rodgort's Invocation][Glowing Gaze][Glyph of Lesser Energy][Resurrection Signet] and then a utility skill of your choice. I would go with [Splinter Weapon] if you're going to do the trial key thing; otherwise [Aegis] or [Ward Against Melee]

For your build... you really want daze in Hard mode. Casters hit hard and you need them down. Savage shot/d-shot just don't cut it when there's multiple casters around. I'd go with something like:
[Apply Poison][Prepared Shot][Concussion Shot][Distracting Shot]["You Move Like a Dwarf!"] and then the rest is up to you, I tend to run [Ebon Battle Standard of Honor]["Finish Him!"][Resurrection Signet]
It actually (IMO) works better than BHA if you get used to AI casting patterns since you'll be able to nail them with C-shot almost every time.

distilledwill · Jun 30, 2008, 06:12 AM // 06:12

Unfortunately, its generally agreed upon that melee heroes have several issues which make them problematic to use. They are fine as you play through the early parts of the NM campaign but you will find that your team will get a lot more out of a paragon hero. If you use a cruel spear paragon then you will get much the same effect as a Wounding Strike Dervish but from a range, therefore avoiding many of the melee pathing and kiting issues:

[build prof=P/Me name="Cruel Spear Para" box Spearmastery=12+1+1 Command=8+1 leadership=9+1 dom=5][Cruel Spear][Blazing Spear][Power Spike]["Go For The Eyes!"][Anthem Of Flame]["Fall Back!"][Aggressive Refrain][Signet Of Return][/build]

the other builds look fine, your new SH ele looks like he has enough damage to me, your monk hero is solid and your build looks ok.

upier · Jun 30, 2008, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

Try something like
[Fire Attunement][Savannah Heat][Searing Heat][Rodgort's Invocation][Glowing Gaze][Glyph of Lesser Energy][Resurrection Signet] and then a utility skill of your choice. I would go with [Splinter Weapon] if you're going to do the trial key thing; otherwise [Aegis] or [Ward Against Melee]

Did they fix the hero's behavior when it comes to RI?
Since last I hear (and saw) the guys only cast it when the foe was close to dying.

DarkSpirit · Jun 30, 2008, 07:17 AM // 07:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Did they fix the hero's behavior when it comes to RI?
Since last I hear (and saw) the guys only cast it when the foe was close to dying.

Not really but because it is a 2s cast, by the time the hero casts it, the target could have already been dying.

I would replace your monk with a necro healer. And your melee hero with a [[They're on Fire] Paragon. My build would be something like that:

[SH Protect Ele;OgNDoMnfOkViRRsXgMwF1jAC]
Aegis and Protective Spirit make great protection skills in HM, from heroes.
[Cruel Spear ToF Paragon;OQWkIMlrJiuj7uHnDYwW4w/FWeD]
Cruel Spear rules even in HM, add on ToF for additional protection and most of all it doesn't have the pathing issues melee heroes have.
[Splinter Restore Healer;OAhjYghsoSYMEPSTTODTjTJgVVA]
Splinter Weapon would bring AoE damage to your Paragon and other heroes. A necro healer has much better energy management than a monk.

EOTN Henchies used: Mhenlo, Herta, Aidan, Zho.

upier · Jun 30, 2008, 09:40 AM // 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Not really but because it is a 2s cast, by the time the hero casts it, the target could have already been dying.

The problem was that the heroes waited for the target to be near death (to START casting it!). And since it's a 2 sec cast - the target is dead by the time it lands a lot of the times.
That was the reason why I stopped using it - so unless that was changed - it's still a poor choice.

DarkSpirit · Jun 30, 2008, 03:20 PM // 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

The problem was that the heroes waited for the target to be near death (to START casting it!). And since it's a 2 sec cast - the target is dead by the time it lands a lot of the times.
That was the reason why I stopped using it - so unless that was changed - it's still a poor choice.

If the question is, have I seen RI land on a monster while it is still alive? Then yes, I have. This means it is not a useless skill.

But because it is a 2s cast, sometimes when the hero starts casting when the target is about to die and by the time it is released, the target is already dead. Searing Heat has the same issue. One wasted cast, that happens sometimes, is not a big problem though.

upier · Jun 30, 2008, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

If the question is, have I seen RI land on a monster while it is still alive? Then yes, I have. This means it is not a useless skill.

But because it is a 2s cast, sometimes when the hero starts casting when the target is about to die and by the time it is released, the target is already dead. Searing Heat has the same issue. One wasted cast, that happens sometimes, is not a big problem though.

I was doing one of the desert missions and Veky wouldn't cast RI - although he had enough energy. He would wait until the foe's hp went down.
So IF that is the normal usage of the skill - I wouldn't suggest it's use - especially not as the spam skill of the build (which considering the recharge of other skills in the listed build - it is).
If that was fixed or it was just some irregular moronic action by the AI (which I was told isn't) - then it is a fairly decent option.

DarkSpirit · Jun 30, 2008, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

I was doing one of the desert missions and Veky wouldn't cast RI - although he had enough energy. He would wait until the foe's hp went down.
So IF that is the normal usage of the skill - I wouldn't suggest it's use - especially not as the spam skill of the build (which considering the recharge of other skills in the listed build - it is).
If that was fixed or it was just some irregular moronic action by the AI (which I was told isn't) - then it is a fairly decent option.

You can take Vekk to the Battle Isle, without other heroes/henchies, and test if he uses it. RI is an expensive skill, so I wont be surprised if he uses other cheaper skills first, if they are available.